Forum:Dragon Age's approval vs. Mass Effect's loyalty, which is better?
Personally, I think Mass Effect 2' loyalty is better than Dragon Age's approval. The reason is because with approval, it's a slow, hard, and tedious process to develop enough trust in my party. But with ME2's loyalty, I just complete one of my squad-mates' respective side-quests, and I get instant loyalty toward the squad-mate I helped with his/her quest. Although, when you think about it, having an NPC-relationship system in Mass Effect 2, Dragon Age, and other games like them, can be much better than the moral-choice systems usually implemented in games like ME2 and DAO. The reason is because with NPC-relationships, there's more of a reason to help the NPCs than with moral-choices, particularly morally-good ones, because these NPCs have deep, involving backstories, personalities, goals, and a variety of other parts that make them up, just like the main protagonists of each game. Because they have problems of their own, there's so much more of a reason to help them than harm them, and there's a strong sense of camaraderie and companionship when you help them solve their problems, and in exchange they help you with yours. Mass Effect 1-2s morality system makes sense but the approval system in DAO is a lot more realistic than the loyalty system in ME2. I mean just because you help someone once does not mean that they should like you forever. Plus being mean to a person does not actually change their approval, it only decreases your morality in ME2.....DAO is better in this thing...each companion likes or dislikes different things according to their own personality. Like Sten hates magic, and he'll dislike you for opting to use it, while Morrigan is mean so she approves when you do mean things....They ought to make a mixed system, with morality and approval, based not only on actions but also on the general morality score. And for the other NPCs (non companions) the reactions should be based on morality.IP no. 59.95.169.10 16:12, June 21, 2010 (UTC) I prefer the approval system, for several reasons. First, in Mass Effect squad members don't respond any differently overall whether you are a fluffy-hearted halo-wearing beacon of light, or a complete ass, at least not beyond immediate dialogue choices. Approval, they get rises and dips, some larger than others, depending. (You still have to do their personal quest for their 'loyalty' - love/friendship, after all.) Then, it's annoying not knowing if something successfully/accidently put a squad member on the 'romance path', since in ME you can't check squad members for this. A few times I have accidently said something 'romance-y' in DA:O and welcomed the oppurtunity to check it didn't adversely affect anything. When prepping characters for ME2, it's annoying having to treat Ashley/Kaiden like a jackass just to stop them swooning and getting imported (whether or not I EVER talk to them from that point!) and had I not looked up on this wiki I would not even known that was the trigger. While one may consider it 'cheating' to 'read their mind' and 'see how they feel', it would at least make things easier as a player to keep things under control. Besides, there is no hostility in ME, only disloyal/loyal, so you miss out on potential trolling lulz. I prefer DA:O form of approval. You have to actually get to know the character before anything happens and then it is easy to lose approval depending on your actions. In ME2 all you had to do was complete a few core missions then wait for each character to bring up a problem they have to you. The one thing I like best about ME2's loyalty was the fact that if a character was no loyal, they probably die at the end of the game.Doctalen 16:35, August 12, 2010 (UTC) I find I personally like ME2 the best. I do have both games and like Dragon Age: Origins, I just prefer the system ME2 uses the best. GrandMoffVixen 16:43, August 12, 2010 (UTC) I like the ME2 system better too. At the OP: It's not like the DA:O system is realistic. All you have to do is (1)compliment them. (2) Help them with their backstories, which aren't as good as the ones in ME2. (3) Give them random stupid items, some of which unlock a "thankyou" dialogue conversation because it is something they like. In ME2, you help people with their personal problems they had before they join you or learned about while on the Normandy. The Illusive man even sends you emails at the end of them and usually says something like "he/she will now be fully focused on the mission". You can still lose some loyalties if your paragon isn't high enough (Jack/Miranda, Tali/Legion). Also, Me2 loyalties unlock new abilities that you can give to yourself too, while DA:O just makes allies have more health/do more damage etc. Lx MALEX xl 23:10, August 15, 2010 (UTC) I am here to say Dragon Age approval is way better you know where you stand and you earned it! Quests should not define how they feel about you manners and kind words are the way to go. Marcymariehunter 22:39, October 8, 2010 (UTC) personally, I think they're too different to compare. See, Dragon Age you're trying to get them to LIKE you. In Mass Effect, like or not is really up for grabs- it's whether or not they'll follow you and are loyal. :Agreed! There's a huge difference between loyalty and approval. I can approve of someone's actions---that doesn't mean I'll be willing to follow them into a suicide mission. That said, if I HAD to make a choice, I prefer Mass Effect's way of doing things. Why? Well, I'll give everyone here that DA:O approval is more realistic IN THEORY, because it sounds like you get to know the character and it is their personalities that matter---true, but only to a certain extent. Lemme put it this way: in Mass Effect, the quests of your followers are always deeply emotional and always very close to their hearts (yeah, kinda sappy, I know), but if it were me, I would always remember the time another person saved my life or helped me get in touch with my long lost relative or whatever. Just because he says something mean or does something that I don't approve of in the future shouldn't make me stop being friends with him. You know? Showing your friendship is done through actions, not words. Rath101 22:37, January 30, 2011 (UTC) :As an addendum, I would also like to point out that for everyone who says that the approval system in DAO lets you KNOW the other characters better as a reason for thinking its better, that's not really a good argument. Mass Effect lets you know the characters as well, just not with a sliding scale. Isn't THAT more realistic? Finding out about Alistair's history with the Grey Wardens gets you a +whatever approval? One of my friends asked me about my breakup with my (ex-)girlfriend. It doesn't mean I give him more approval. It just means he knows about my breakup. Nuff said. What about Tali and the relationship between her father and the Quarian fleet in general? Jack, being emotionally traumatized for most of her life? Garrus, who has a really bad case of survivor's guilt? Come on people, all of these characters have a rich history behind them. Just because there's no number that tells you they like you more it doesn't mean your not getting to know them. Mass Effect simply takes a nonnumerical approach. Which is FAR MORE realistic. If DAO was realistic, then I would have known that my (ex)girlfriend approval had dropped down to Neutral, and I could have given her Andraste's grace to have brought it up to Interested. Right. Real realistic. But if I had done something like helped her reunite and get in touch with her long lost sister, or protected her father's reputation and stopped her from being banned from her---erm, fleet? Whatever. You can bet it would have probably done more to win her over. Rath101 22:52, January 30, 2011 (UTC) I can see both sides of the argument here, but the biggest limitation/ problem I have with DA:O's approval system is that it limits your choice of squad. If you're a raging douchebag, you don't bring those do-gooders that will loudly protest and disapprove over everything you do, and you end up taking the baby eaters and mass murderers instead. In ME you can bring anyone and still be a dick, and the only reaction would be there and then, maybe a comment on the ship, but that's it. That said, ME's system works better, since your two favourite squad members might be at the opposite end of the scale. For example, you can bring Samara with you on Zaeed's loyalty mission, but she will still comply with your choices/ orders of abandoning the innocent bystanders to a fiery death, even if it violates her very being. (OK that came out wrong, but you know what I mean.) Instead of hating you for letting people burn to death, like she would with the approval system, she does what she was ordered/ told. It also works better considering you run a military operation, and insubordination wouldn't help your cause in any way. Let's say Samara was Leliana and Zaeed was Morrigan, L would hate you and M would just laugh it up. L -30 approval, M +30. Wouldn't work. You get the point. the Indiekid 06.04.11